Music Video Lesson: 17 Year Old Virtuoso Violinist: Andrea Cicalese

Robert: Welcome to LivingPianos.com. Robert Estrin here with a show about what it's like to be a classical musician in the 21st century. And I'm so pleased to have violinist Andrea Cicalese, who I got the opportunity to hear in a private concert right on the lake, just a few blocks from here, with dear friend and sensational pianist Jolt Bogner. And we've got Andrea here right now and I want to welcome Andrea. Good to have you here.

Andrea: Thank you so much, Robert, for having me on your wonderful show. I am really flattered to be invited and I'm really happy to share some of my stories with you.

Robert: Absolutely. So, you know, I was really astounded going to this concert and I was already very, very taken with your playing and not only the technical mastery, but the depth of your musicianship. And then at a certain point, my wife whispered in my ear that you were 17 years old and I almost fell out of my seat. And then later on, speaking with you, learning that you've only been playing the violin for nine years. How is this possible? So tell me a little bit about your background and your training and let everybody know about, you know, you're from Italy, living in Germany, making your foray into the United States now. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Andrea: OK, so as you mentioned, I started playing the violin when I was seven, which was exactly when I moved from Italy to Germany. And so learning the violin, I mean, I learned violin before German, really. So it was kind of a language for me to learn in that moment. And it was in a moment in my life where I really needed this, since really we left family, friends and everyone to move to Germany. And the violin was me comforting myself. Basically, I started lessons with Rudens Turku, also under guardians of Anna Chumachenko, who is just an incredible teacher. Then I moved to Wurzburg University of Music when I was 13. And I studied with Herwig Zagther. And now I'm currently since two years teacher of Josef Prisin, who I just couldn't be happier with. I think he's an absolute genius of music. And he taught people like Daniel Tsakovich, Sergei Katsyatian or Albrecht Bornega. So really amazing people. And I think I'm in the right place right now and I don't really want to go. So that's my musicianship right now. Then we met in America, as you were saying. And that's because I was invited to play a recital in Buffalo with pianist Alexander Malatheev, who is, as we all know, incredible.

Robert: That must have been quite an experience for you.

Andrea: Absolutely. It was actually my dream to perform with him since many years. I vividly, and it sounds like a movie when I say it, but that's just what happened. I remember sitting on the couch with my father and I was showing him a video of Alexander and I said to him, one day, do you think I will play with this guy? He is four years older than me. So it was like a feeling of someone that I looked up to a lot. So someone still in my generation, but older. And here I was two weeks ago, we played in Buffalo. We played Beethoven's first sonata, Schubert's sonatina in D from Opus 34 and Greek third sonata, and then encore by Massenet and Shostakovich. And it was just a wonderful, wonderful experience.

Robert: Fabulous.

Andrea: And I'm happy you know it. It seems so wonderful.

Robert: Now, a lot of people would imagine that in order to get on such a level of playing and artistry in such a short amount of time, that you would be spending all day, every day practicing and then in talking to you, you reveal to me that you're practicing, you do not as much as some people might think. Tell us a little bit about what your day to day generally is like. Of course, when you're preparing for a program, I imagine you're immersed in practicing and rehearsing and all of that. But how do you find balance with travel, practicing, learning new repertoire, rehearsing and all of that? What's that like? What's the life like?

Andrea: Well, that's basically, I think, what a healthy life of a musician nowadays should be even what I'm trying to achieve. Because you cannot, in my opinion, you cannot practice seven hours a day without really any reason. And then you're only in this practice room. Like I can imagine, for example, now talking about your channel, a pianist who is practicing eight hours a day only in his practice room alone. And then suddenly, like in a Hollywood movie, he gets discovered and then he goes on stage and he's like the best performer of all time. That can happen, sure. But I believe that to perform well, which is what I try to do, you must have a life. You must have experiences. You must see nature, art, literature, friends, communication, love, hate, you know, everything must be there in order to have something to say, I believe. Because if you're empty inside, then it's not really going to go well. And after my recitals, usually it's some of the most lonely moments in my life, because I play and I open my soul to the audience. So I really give them part of me, of my being in that very moment, of my present being. I give them part of me. And then I go in the dressing room and I'm empty because I have nothing more to say. And that's when you feel alive in a concert, to quote my friend Daniel Olsakovich, which he told me, when you feel alive in a concert, that's when a concert went well. And I believe that's really part of it, really is true. And that's what I try to do.

Robert: Absolutely. And I always enjoy the after concert, getting together with friends and fans. It's always a joy and kind of a relief because there is a certain amount of nerves. And that's a question for you. And by the way, I want to let everybody know that a little bit later, we're going to play an excerpt so you get to hear Andrea in performance. So stay tuned to this video because you're going to want to hear this music. But tell me about how you handle nerves. Do you get nervous? What's it like for getting on stage when there are hundreds or even thousands of people in a hall? How do you cope with that?

Andrea: Well I have to say that I'm very lucky because I don't really have big problems with being nervous. Of course, what I call it is adrenaline. There's always adrenaline when I play, when I do chamber music, when I perform a soloist. I mean, there is always something there. Nevertheless, my most nervousness actually comes in the preparation of the concert and not really in the concert because when I'm told, okay, you're playing a recital, let's take this for example in Buffalo, which I played now with Alexander. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, so we are very good friends, but still this is an important guy which I'm playing with. And obviously, like it should be because nervousness shows responsibility. You want to do well and that's why you become nervous. I mean, you feel certain responsibility for the audience. Nevertheless, I think that in my preparation, I prepare so hard and so well, or I try, that at least I feel very confident about what I'm doing. And when I got to rehearsals with Alexander, which we did, I think maximum two days of rehearsal for one and a half hour long program after all. So really not much time. We were already seeing that things were working really well. We were a good team. We were playing well together. And the atmosphere was wonderful because although he has this big career and he just came back from performing in Concertgebouw, Amsterdam, Saga Vaux, Paris and Tanglewood Festival with Michael Tilson Thomas, he makes me feel like just a colleague and friend. And so we had a wonderful time. And when we got on stage, we really, really just had fun together and also backstage. It was just a funny moment. We behaved like little brother, big brother, basically it's our relationship or who gets the last cookie type of thing. So I couldn't feel more comfortable. And generally in my performances, that's how I approach things like as a game, but with responsibility basically.

Robert: Well, that's great that you put the nerves at the beginning instead of at the end as it should be. And I know there are different schools of thought as to how to approach performing. For example, at a concert I attended of Ivo Pogorelic, sensational pianist, the hall was completely black. So you couldn't see your hands in front of you. And he walked out on stage and without even looking at the audience proceeded to play a brilliant performance. So perhaps his way of coping with the audience is to pretend they're not there. I may be miss speaking because I don't know this for a fact. But what I like to do is in a best case scenario, take that energy, that adrenaline you spoke of and use it to inspire things that maybe you never thought of doing before. So I'm going to ask you, how much of your program do you leave to the moment to spontaneity and how much has really just worked out that you try to faithfully reproduce what you did in practice?

Andrea: So there is this violinist, Jascha Heifetz, which I'm about to quote, and he is the most legendary violinist of all time. When you practice, act like it's the last time you're playing. When you play the concert, don't give a damn. What I mean to say with this is when I practice, I mean, with my teacher and with music, especially with Beethoven or Schubert talking about now, my latest recital, it's all worked out really, really finely, like every phrase. I mean, there is history behind this music. There is a way to play it. Of course you have to be individual, but I really program what I want to do as a total shape, you know, in phrases. Nevertheless, when I go to the performance, I don't think about what I programmed to do. I just do it. And when I just do it, certain things might be different. Or I think music generally, when you say this phrasing is good or bad or this color is good or bad, that's not really possible. I think it depends on the context. So what came before and what did it feel right to do in this moment? For example, in the second movement of Schubert, which you heard me play, there is this unbelievable slow and warm thing from the violin, which in every performance I play differently, really. Which you can't really program this. And about Ivo Pogorelic, my approach is very different. But of course he is Ivo Pogorelic, so I might be the wrong one. But my approach is to feel the energy from the audience and then to reflect it in an amplified version to them. And that's how I take my adrenaline and give it to them, especially now in the Kiv Sonata, for example, if I take from this last program. You know, I feel they are there, they are listening. There are moments where it's almost impossible to hear what I'm playing really with pianists, really, really fine. And then they're listening and they gave me this energy, which later I can explode really. And that's super important to me. And a more intimate hall, and rather than the 2000 places black hall where you see just yourself, more intimate hall where I can connect more with the people is what I personally enjoy the most.

Robert: Yes, well, it was a joy hearing you in an intimate setting. And we sat in the first row, so I was maybe five or six feet from you. And you know, growing up with my father, Morton Estrin, hearing him as a concert pianist up close all the time. And whenever I'd go to concerts of his, it was like so much less energy. I mean, when you're in the same room with a concert pianist or concert violinist, the energy and intensity is so amazing. But getting back to this idea of what to do in a performance, how much to do is what you've practiced. And I sometimes liken it to a conversation. If you've ever had an important interview or something, you might rehearse in your mind everything you're going to say to the last detail. But then once you come to the actual conversation, or in this case, the performance, there is a give and take with the audience. And certainly with the musicians you're playing with. So you can never really predict where it's going to go. And you can never recreate even if you do the greatest performance you've ever done in your life. You can't then say, oh, that's the way I'm going to play it. And it's never going to be the same.

Andrea: Oh, really? I think you can have the same, you can have an idea of how you want to construct things. Or generally, you know, here I want to be quieter. But the exact tone, the amount of vibrato, the warmth in the bow that you decide to give, or the exact tempi, which we can see, for example, in speaking of pianist Mikhail Pletniyov, his tempi are, I heard in Berbier, all the Chopin preludes, nocturnes, Scriabin, impromptu and Beethoven concerto. And it was the most unbelievable concert of my life. I think I learned so much from that because I've never heard such a pianissimo really being played on the piano, like really nothing but still with quality. And at the same time, like his tempi, when he takes time, how he plays the melody compared to bass, bassline. So his timing is unbelievable. And I cannot believe that it's always the same. Indeed it's incredible. And I think that's when you become a great master like him, although I hate the word master in music. But when you're as good as Mikhail Pletniyov, which almost nobody is as good, then I think that's what you do in a concert. You know, I heard that, for example, he is practicing on keyboards and not on real pianos. I don't know this for a fact, but I heard this legend that he's playing on keyboards because then he goes to the concert and he has the amount of experience that he thinks of a caller and it comes. And so he can do whatever he wants. I call the stage usually, I call it when I get in a hall, I say out loud to myself, okay, so this is my playground today.

Robert: That's a great attitude. I want to talk a little bit. First, I want to let everybody hear a bit of your playing and then I want to revisit the idea of the way players played in the early part of the 20th century compared to the playing styles today on violin, on piano and all instruments. I think there's quite different. I think that's a, we'd have a lively discussion about that, but let's take a little break and hear some of your wonderful playing.

Andrea: Thank you.

Robert: Wow that was some magnificent playing there and there's a lot more. We'll have links here on living pianos.com and YouTube in the description so you can hear more of Andrea's fabulous violin playing. Thank you so much. So the way instruments are played today is very, very different from what it was. You mentioned Heifetz and Milstein and the great pianist of Hoffman, Levine, Rachmaninoff, Horowitz. And it seems that there was much more creative diversity in performances then, which I attribute a great deal to technology. My generation grew up with recordings and now everybody has everything right in their own pocket. You can hear every performance of everybody in the world at the click of a button. And I think to some extent that's made everybody play more alike. And I was wondering what your feeling is about that. And if somebody goes out and plays with a kind of wildly creative expression that Alfred Courtauld on piano or some of the great violinists did, would it even be accepted today? What's your feeling about the general performance practices in the 21st century compared to earlier in the 20th century?

Andrea: I mean, it's that's a very interesting question. And I have, you know, I always change my ideas on this because on the one hand, I love to, pick up my phone and I can listen to unlimited music, which is also a gift for us young musicians to be able to listen to whatever we want really. So, you know, to take, I don't know, taking Plenioff's Beethoven third concerto, I can listen to it every day and just like this. And then I say, okay, but let's see how Richter played this. And then I go on and there is the recording. So on the one hand, that's wonderful. On the other hand, you mentioned the common problem. Yeah, that's something that surely is the effect. For example, if you mentioned Rachmaninov, with Rachmaninov, I always associate Fritz Kreisler, legendary violinist, which they even recorded together the Greek sonata that you listened to me playing.

Robert: I've heard that performance and of course it's spectacular.

Andrea: Yeah. And the way Kreisler plays it, it's just today people would, you know, in the audience would look around like, what is it? But if you take maybe the second movement, which I'm the most fan of, I mean, the tempi of Rachmaninov, Kreisler's tone, vibrato. I mean, you have to get used to it, but I think it's the best recording of the second movement, which today in any competition you would be thrown out in the first round with someone, which is funny because it was Kreisler. So I really have mixed feelings about it. But when I learned the second movement of the Greek sonata, a big inspiration was from this recording actually. Of course I did it to make it my own. I worked a lot with my teacher and took ideas. But generally when I play a piece, actually, I don't really listen to recordings. I listen to recordings before and after I'm playing it, just because of the problem that you mentioned. So that's my reason for myself. The only exception I made was in the second movement of Kreisler because I just wanted to copy certainly Sandor really. Because they were so amazing and I tried.

Robert: Yeah, what I do, I purposely don't listen to any recordings until after I have a piece on performance level. And then I had to go crazy and I started listening to every single performance until I drive my wife crazy because... so many it's insane. Because I kind of get, it's so interesting to hear how different people play a piece, but I don't want to be influenced before I have my own convictions about it.

Andrea: You know, an important thing that as you were mentioning in your generation, you were buying CDs from people that you admired and you were spending money on it. Right? So it was an effort to buy them for everyone. Some were more accessible, some were less accessible. And so of course you would choose the great masters like Horowitz, Richter, Rachmaninoff, whoever. In our case, and I think that's super important for young musicians and that's just my humble opinion, is really to develop good taste. That's the most important I think, because if you develop good taste, then you're able to listen to yourself in practice and decide, okay, this phrasing maybe is rather acceptable than this. I can just hear suddenly the tone suddenly loud or whatever. So good taste and listening to the old legends was more common because nowadays people click on the first recording on Spotify and then listen to 500 things and then they're confused. Well, those days you just had the really good recordings which you were buying. Of course, the difference is, which is also a pro point, is people like me who are aspiring violinists, I'm happy if people listen to my recording. And that's something that in your days maybe it was less possible. So there are pros and cons, but from the learning perspective, I think the good taste development is the most important for me.

Robert: Sure, I just did a video recently about the two instruments everybody studies in music conservatory, which are piano and singing, even if it's just sight singing or singing in the choir. So I was wondering what background you have in other instruments, piano specifically and any other instruments that you may have studied?

Andrea: Well, studied with teacher, I have studied not any other instrument, but in my free time, I'm constantly on the piano. Mostly I tried a little bit of jazz actually, which it's just my free time. I love to listen also to jazz recordings. And when I have a phrase in mind, for me it's really important to sing it or to play it on the piano because of the following thing. If I'm playing a piece and I am singing it, then I don't care about technical issues because for myself, I don't really care about how I sing. It's just about, I want to make clear to myself how is the phrase, right? While on the violin, I think I'm making it clear, but I always care about intonation, rhythmic, how I put my fingers or if there is a fast scale, you know, when I sing, I just ignore these things. And then I have a much more clear understanding of what I actually want to do. Take that and put that and apply it to my instrument. That's my technique often.

Robert: My daughter, Jenny Estrin is a violinist and she plays with the Mozart players, the opera, the ballet and all of that. But she also performs in fiddling and does songwriting and all of that. So I'm wondering how much crossover you do. You mentioned jazz. Do you do any jazz violin or other styles?

Andrea: I don't perform jazz for now, which is maybe, who knows, something that in my career can still happen when like take Friedrich Gulda talking about pianist. I mean, after super many years in Carnegie Hall, Konzerthal in Wien or the biggest halls, he moved to America and did jazz on what they said was an acceptable level for the serious jazz community in America. I mean, that can always happen or with conducting. I'm really fascinated, really, really fascinated. But about jazz, I mean, public performances I have not played, but in my free time, sometimes with my father, for example, who plays piano, not professionally, we do certain pieces, jazz pieces together, improvise or with my friends. It's always a fun moment to spend time with. I tend not to do it too much simply because some technical aspects are really different in jazz violin. And I want to not ruin my technical preparation for classical music. But, you know, I think once every two, three days, I always play some jazz for an hour. I do that always. And it's super important for me because with classical music, I'm sure musicians tend to take music too seriously or not music, but, you know, their performance or how they, oh, there was like one wrong note. Oh, like, you know, this type of thing, which of course I have to do as well because I want to compete on high level and make the big career. But at the same time, I see music very, very different. I see it like a game that is played. I was asked by Jolt Bognar talking about him in the classical live episode that he just shot. He asked me, you know, how seriously do we have to take music? And my answer was actually that if my goal is just to learn and if I see children from zero to seven years old, how much they learn, but how not seriously they take it. That's what I'm inspired by essentially.

Robert: That's a very great observation. And it's the discovery and curiosity that makes it to have a playfulness about it instead of such a seriousness. Not to mention the fact that so many people think of classical music as being serious music. Certainly there are some devastating movements of Shostakovich or Mahler, but then again, there's playfulness in these composers as well.

Andrea: I mean, it's just a game really.

Robert: Yes, exactly. It's all was just a game.

Andrea: And in some, I mean, I remember in one horn concerto, which he wrote for a friend. I don't remember right now which horn concerto, French horn concerto, but he even wrote a part where it makes it sound like the horn player messed up. And then it starts again, like he forgot the music.

Robert: You might be referring to the musical joke of Mozart that has all those wrong notes in the horn, which is classic. I'm actually a French hornist, so I think that might be because I'm intimately familiar, I've played all the Mozart horn concertos, but the musical joke of Mozart is, I think that you might be referring to that, which is I'll put a link to that in the description also, because it really is fun to listen to. Before you go, I just wanted to get an idea. I know you're from Italy, living in Germany, and I don't know how long you're in the United States. Tell us a bit about your immediate plans and what your long-term hopes are for your future with the violin and in life in general.

Andrea: Yeah, so as I said, I come from Italy and I always go back to Italy, really, because I'm still in high school. So in Germany, here I attend high school, in Munich, in Karlsruhe, which is four hours away, I have violin conservatory lessons. And mostly I play here, of course, because more people know me here. And in America, I went now two times, both to meet with Alexander Malathay, the second meeting to be interviewed by Joel Bognar and have a wonderful discussion on living the classical life, and to give two recitals in Cleveland, one you attended, and one in Buffalo with Alexander Malathay. And so that's my experience in America, which was just wonderful. And then I was in New York later, which is just a big jungle and really exciting for me. About my immediate plans, I'm now going to, between end of January and April, I have seven concerts with Vivaldi Winter to perform, where I'm going to perform the winter. And then there is other music with ensemble to perform. And accompanying me are members from Munich Philharmonic Orchestra, which is really nice. We did the same with Beethoven Concerto once. And the most wonderful thing about it, which is why I'm mentioning this exact event, actually, it's for children, children who want to listen to music, they come with their parents and they just listen. And there are these fun interactions later with the children. And yet the music is on a really high level because as I mentioned, the orchestra is Munich Philharmonic members. So it's just wonderful to make music on high level, but at the same time, keep in mind that this is for people who never heard maybe even the violin. Of course, adults are welcome too. But we have this short tour in my various seven concerts of our children with Heinrich Klug, ex-first cellist of Munich Philharmonic. Who can you imagine? He played Shostakovich cello concerto for Shostakovich in Moscow. So he is a really great guy, really good friend. And yeah, it's wonderful. That's my immediate plan. Then plans in the future. I mean, I hope to do apart from soloistic career, I hate the word actually career, for soloistic performances, I hope to play a lot of more chamber music with colleagues like Alexander Malfev, or we decided to go also on tour with Joel Bogner. And there's a lot of things that are yet to come. And of course, one day, if we stick to America, hopefully, we will attend another performance of mine in Carnegie Hall. That's the big goal.

Robert: That would be fabulous. And I could tell you that I'm so glad to get to know you and look forward to hearing more of you. And perhaps we can perform together at some point as well, which would be a real joy.

Andrea: Absolutely.

Robert: So, you know, I'm wondering, since growing up in Europe, you know, and coming here to the US, I'm wondering if you find any qualitative difference between audiences here, the acceptance of classical music in the United States compared to in Europe, where you grew up.

Andrea: Actually, I find quite big differences. I see that in the United States, for example, there's many pros and cons to this. But I think many classical musicians are also doing more social media, for example, or more playing other types of music or, you know, being entertaining with other types of content, really, that is not music, which has great sides, for example, that it's more accessible for young people in America, I believe. On the other hand, one has to always watch out that it doesn't get completely away from classical music, because otherwise you're not making it more accessible, you're just changing the topic. So that's my perception of it. And also in America, it felt like everything is more possible. There is more opportunities once you're in a circle of people that want to help you. Since basically, I don't know if it's my perception, but I saw a lot of works with donations in America, which in Europe, it's almost not possible. So in Europe, it's through, well, of course, manager, hall, and then how is your career right now? And this is what you're getting. While in America, if there's someone who believes in you, you're being pushed much further. It's my perception as a young musician right now. On the other hand, I see places like Juilliard or, you know, CIM, let's say, and musical education, which are prices like fifty five thousand dollars per year, which I could not afford. And here in Europe, we have Vienna Conservatory, let's say the biggest conservatory in the world, probably, with incredible education and incredible names, teacher, big, big teachers, really geniuses of music there or or Mozarteum in Salzburg, which I'm paying in cash with Josef Riesing, a legend of the violin. I'm playing three hundred dollars per semester. So in that sense, that's more accessible for young people. So that's that's my my pros and cons about America. It's really different ways. Your orchestras, for the most part, are supported by private donors in Germany, for example, their state sponsored. So there's a different different business model for young artists. Yeah. I mean, if you take even I mean, the budget that they have in America, it's just huge. I mean, you're in Cleveland right now, correct?

Robert: That's right.

Andrea: And I heard, for example, a concertmaster in Cleveland, it can't get up to seven digits. I mean, the price here. Yeah. While while in Munich, it's much, much lower because it's from the state, of course. And that has also pros and cons because one can fall down really quickly from private donors. But it's more and more. In America, even the streets are bigger. In America, it looks like you can dream more forward in America, which in some cases it's true. Sometimes you have to watch out to what are you actually saying yes to. But in Europe, it's or especially in Germany, I can talk because I don't know much about the business in Italy. I know a little bit. But in Germany, it's much more structured, I think, like Germans generally is.

Robert: Exactly. Well, they're different cultures. Anyway, I wish you great success in your budding career. I look forward to keeping in touch with you. And I want to thank you for visiting here. And everybody, you can check out more of Andrea. There'll be links below. Thanks so much for joining us. And we'll see you next time here on living pianos dot com. Thanks again, Andrea.

Andrea: Thank you so much, Robert, for having me on your incredible channel. And it's a it's a great opportunity for me to share my stories. I hope some of them were interesting. And I look forward to doing this again, discussing some other topics. And and we will see each other next time, which will be soon where I come to Cleveland very soon.

Robert: Sounds great. Well, take care and see you all next time here on livingpianos.com.


Andrea Cicalese YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWnOtXK_vF25EntVj2B4yow

Find the original source of this video at this link: https://livingpianos.com/17-year-old-virtuoso-violinist-andrea-cicalese/

Automatic video-to-text transcription by DaDaScribe.com

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